I know it almost certainly isnt, but please god let it be Fairphone.
It will not be Fairphone but OnePlus
Glad to know privacy isn’t budget friendly.
Unfortunately a lot of “budget” items are being subsidized by your personal information, and the smaller market for privacy-forward goods and services makes economies of scale harder.
Unless governments start passing robust privacy laws, it will just continue to get more and more expensive to live privately with modern conveniences.
That’s what I used to think before Google started pricing their devices on parity with Apple.
Now ask yourself, is that because Google isn’t subsidizing device costs… Or perhaps…
It’s because they can, basically. That’s the beginning and end of how companies price products and services.
The sad part is how little things actually cost to produce.
Things cost a lot to produce. It’s cheapened by underpaying laborers and underestimating the cost and impact of resource extraction and power consumption, and the current path of massively scaling up factories, overproducing, and driving the repair economy out of business by making “just buy a new one!” so affordable really looks like The Big Thing That Ends The Current Epoch that people will really struggle to comprehend when they learn about it in history class
💯
I don’t know what exactly you’re referring to but I assume you mean the bill of material cost that sometimes goes around in headlines like “new phone only costs $150 to produce and is sold for $500” or something like that.
That’s a flawed way of looking at it because it ignores things like:
- Shipping cost (both the final product and individual components)
- Development cost
- The % the retail store takes
- …
And of course profit which ideally is used to finance the development of the next device and ofc the greedy execs at the end who put the rest in their pockets (that’s the only part which you can actually cut)
I’m not sure where you are, but I’ve worked in retail quite a lot of years. Where I am, now:
*R&D is paid for at some point *Shipping is probably more expensive now, but is normally not that expensive *Retail stores pay a flat rate per item, less in bulk
What is expensive:
*Venture capitalists *BoD, large share holders *Marketing (contained once brand recognition established) *C-suite *Real estate
R&D is a really big one though. It’s a very high price for smaller volumes of phones but as soon as you get into the bigger quantities you can save on R&D (per model) and pocket the rest as profit.
To me it makes a lot of sense that privacy phones cost more, even if you could at most shave $100 off the price with selling data. It’s economies of scale.
If you have economies of scale, and are competing on ground other than having the highest specs on paper, yes. If you’re using the latest hardware and not moving Google volumes of devices though it’s not as easy to keep prices down.
Yeah, it would be great if they would support a range of devices from whichever OEM this is, at different price points.
Biggest challenge GOS has is that most hardware vendors do not meet their fairly restrictive hardware security requirements, and those few that do don’t typically allow bootloader unlocking. Pixel devices up until now have been unicorns in those regards.
But I don’t get why they insist on those requirements. Yes, Random Phone + Graphene is less secure than Pixel + Graphene, but still far more secure and private than Random Phone + Stock ROM. Insisting on having all features just makes it far less accessible. There are many regions and classes that can’t buy supported phones or a new phone at all. And I can’t even properly confirm that everything I want to use works on graphene, because I’d need to fully commit towards buying a phone first. Which, even used, costs a lot.
It’s a limited development pool, and they focus on delivering the most secure mobile OS possible, within the constraints that their funding and resources allow.
There are other ROMS, such as CalyxOS that have expanded to a few other devices, and LineageOS which has even broader support.
According to the FAQ (warning: very wordy):
The goal of the project is not to slightly improve some aspects of insecure devices and supporting a broad set of devices would be directly counter to the values of the project.
The expectation is for people to buy a secure device meeting our requirements to run GrapheneOS. Broad device support would imply mainly supporting very badly secured devices unable to support our features. It would also take a substantial amount of resources away from our work on privacy and security, especially since a lot of it is closely tied to the hardware such as the USB-C port control and fixing or working around memory corruption bugs uncovered by our features.
They’d probably bitch and whine that every other phone doesn’t have the absolutetely vital security feature called thingamabobSecurityModule™ without which apparently every other security feature and even their ROM itself doesn’t work anymore; as they always do.
Second hand pixels are not that expensive. Or the a series. Though it would be cool if it could run on a cheaper burner phone.
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Oh no, won’t somebody think of Google’s bottom line?!
While they’re at it, can they talk their oem into adding a headphone jack? Literally the main reason I don’t already do Pixel + Graphene. (And yes I know one of the supported Pixel phones does have one, but it also happens to be the exact model that I have personally seen do the black screen of death, so no thanks).
my car set up that only gets used once or twice a month:
- phone to usb c charge + accessory dongle
- charge line from dongle to cig port charger dongle to usb c to double 3.5
- 3.5 speaker to cassette adapter
- 3.5 mic to microphone clipped to sun visor
- janky bluetooth button thing zip tied to the steering wheel and routed to cig port charger for answering calls and skipping tracks
Can they please make it work for Samsungs? I made the mistake of getting an S23 and I didn’t realize it was incompatible with all non-standard OSes.
Samsung phones blow e-fuses when you unlock their bootloaders, so there’s no going back. I think this would prevent a proper GrapheneOS installation.
Perhaps Samsung could start shipping phones with GrapheneOS natively installed, but since the phone’s owner would not have control of the OS, that would arguably not be GrapheneOS as we know it today. Or maybe Samsung could change their chain of trust implementation to be more like Google’s, allowing the bootloader to be re-locked.
Samsung would never. Their customized OS is this nested egg of vendor lock-in, with your data at the center. They would rather harvest data from 99.5% of their customer base than see the 0.5% of us that actually like their equipment buy it and do anything other than sink into their ecosystem.
I got a z flip 4 the other week for 90 quid off ebay. Was in perfect condition, and it felt nice in the hand. Liked the big screen, all that stuff. They I started running into the Samsung customised OS. It took less than a day to piss me off so much I gave it away.
Samsung make really nice phones, but then ruin them with their custom OS and bloat.
Wow. That is some grade A bullshit!
that reminds me, samsung has been advertising knox on their TVs now. samsung really likes permanently self damaging electronics
If, God willing, it ever becomes available on a dual screen phone, I’ll shit bricks.
It already runs on the Pixel 9 Fold, and has for a while now.
That’s one with a single screen that folds though. Those break after like, a year. I was looking for more Nintendo DS style. 😅
It has a big folding screen and a normal size non folding screen
I have a pixel 8. I’ve wanted to degoogle myself for years. How risky is Graphene to install? Do I need to root it? Can I brick it? Are there things it does that Google doesn’t? Apps that don’t work for it?
If you use the web installer provided on GrapheneOS website, you can’t fuck it up. Just make sure you use a chromium browser when you do it, for some reason it crashes on Firefox (but it didn’t brick my phone, so don’t worry)
No root needed, just follow the instructions on the website (read before doing it). You probably could brick it like anything else, but I didn’t and I barely knew what I was doing (and like I said, it crashed on me when trying it via FF).
Neat things they do that Google doesn’t (afaik):
- Auto turning Wifi and Bluetooth off if it’s not connected (security and saves battery)
- Being able to deny wifi permission to an app just through regular settings (Stock androids need root to do that). Like, I use Gboard, but it had no wifi, so it can’t send telemetry to Google.
Notable things that don’t work:
- Some banking apps, really depends on luck. My debit card bank doesn’t work, but my credit card bank does. Check this list to see if your banking app is tested. The reason is out of GOS hands, Google changed from SafetyNet to Play API or smth. If you can, just do web banking.
- RCS is finicky enough on stock devices, but GOS ramps it up to a new level. There’s workarounds, but don’t be surprised if it breaks a few months later. Highly recommend getting your friends/family to communicate with you through a different E2EE app, like Signal, XMPP/Jabber, etc. or else you’ll be stuck with insecure SMS
- Some people have Android Auto issues? Idk, I’ve never used it
Good on ya for sharing a helpful response
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Follow the instructions as they’re presented and you’ll be fine
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Installing it will make rooting easier, but afik root is not required (though you will be accessing the device at the recovery/bootloader level, something with far more control than root)
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Yes, pay attention, follow the instructions and you’ll be fine though
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Respect your privacy, allow you to sandbox apps which want to spy
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Everything should work because of the sandbox function, the same cannot be said for most other custom ROMs unless the Google apps have been installed.
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There are definitely some things that do not work with GrapheneOS, though most haven’t affected me as I don’t use them (like banking apps).
- A lot of banking apps don’t work, especially from some European banks. I believe there is a fairly well updated list available online.
- Android Auto can be made to work, but it’s quirky and you have to fiddle with quite a few settings and possibly give up a fair amount of privacy to get some things going (like navigation). I’m still fighting with this.
- Many apps will initially not work until you figure out what permissions they actually need and which they can bend on.
I still personally think it is worth it, but I can only speak for myself.
Banking apps have worked without issues, in my experience.
The only things I’ve had issues with, is in-app purchases. Paid apps work, but the in app stuff is hit and miss.
Banking apps are highly variable, many work, many don’t. I have also heard that there are some required 2FA apps used some some European banks that currently don’t work. I don’t use any of these, so it hasn’t been an issue, but I just wanted to make sure the OP knew to be on the lookout.
Only took like twenty years
That’s fantastic. Does this help with the issue of Google releasing AOSP security updates at a slower cadence? Maybe working directly with an OEM resolves this?
I don’t really know how this works, but if they have the cooperation of an OEM they should have the same access to AOSP security updates the OEM has, and access to hardware drivers from a company that’s not trying to thwart them. I can see how this would be preferable to a basically antagonistic relationship with Google, who are making things difficult because they want all Pixel phones to run their stock OS. The thing I wonder is what motivates the OEM to continue a cooperative relationship with Graphene OS.
That’s exactly my understanding/ thought process as well. I was wondering the same in terms of why an OEM would cooperate, and my first thought was the increase in hardware sales. I’m not sure how big the market is, but I know the security crowd will flock to them if they’re partnering with GOS when that market share would have previously been Googles. I’m not sure how big that market is or if the ‘juice would be worth the squeeze’.
I wonder whether there’s some shared development agreement too. Perhaps the OEM stands to gain some software improvements for its own non-Graphene devices, or perhaps Graphene OS will become its mainstream offering. There has to be more to it than picking up the small percentage of customers who shop for privacy.
They’re extremely talented in the security/mobile/os arena, why not contribute to one of the Linux mobile projects and kill two birds?
Because people want to use apps, which unfortunately don’t exist on the Linux mobile projects. Banking apps are the biggest issue in fact. Obviously for a lot of other things, anyone can create alternatives.
And the whole issue of not being able to use most modern hardware with mainline Linux kernel because the drivers are closed source binary blobs. You have to use a device-specific kernels.
Waydroid exists but agreed, shouldn’t be a permanent fix, but it’s a valid step
That solves apps, but partially - I don’t think WayDroid passes Google Play integrity?
Still leaves us the driver issue, for which I blame Qualcomm mostly.
please, finally
Everyone out here guessing small OEMs for an official Graphene launch when it’s obviously Apple.
Except that they mention Snapdragon, which Apple does not use.
They also mention “major Android OEM” Which does not apply to Apple.
tinfoil hat on It’s obviously Apple funding this. They know most android users won’t buy apples, they just want to weaken Google.
Could you imagine if apple created a Sub, where they made grapheneos iphones? Google would lose billions
I think you are harshly overestimating how many people use GrapheneOS or even care about what it stands for.
GrapheneOS is used by people in danger of being silenced, e.g. journalists
Yeah, by all of them? Whats the percentage of journalists in all android users? Thats still a minority.
Look, I am not arguing against the use of it. Just people try to paint a picture like this is being used so widely when likely 95% of users haven’t even heard about it.
Many would just buy because it’s made by apple yk
If somebody is buying a phone just because it’s made by apple, they were never going to buy an android in the first place. Google would be entirely unaffected by this.
GrapheneOS goes against everything Apple stands for, how does this even make remotely sense?
I would unironically buy a gos iPhone. Like not the newest shiniest but older iphones become reasonable pricewise
They make pretty good hardware and the fact that there aren’t too many different configurations is a plus when it comes to software support. GOS iPhone would be awesome. Unfortunately never going to happen :(
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I can only think of Motorola doing rhis and it would ROCK !
Yeah, I had two Motorola devices back to back because the price was right, then I switched to Pixel for GrapheneOS.
The Edge 70 Ultra comes in Q3/4 2026, that could be a hot contender.
… but Apple doesn’t use snapdragon SoCs?
Open source drivers for Apple A series chips so GrapheneOS could use it? Yes please!
I mean, it specifically says snapdragon.
I know. I meant that would also be cool to have.
Not sure if serious
I thought Google’s plans to kill AOSP effectively put a nail in Graphene’s coffin?
Google has made it harder (it may kill AOSP in the long run but not yet) by delaying public release of source trees later than before. To counter that, they partnered with OEM, who in turn are partnered with Google, who are likely to get sources faster.
I still don’t how they (and F-Droid) plan to bypass the whole de al with Google killing non-PlayStore aproved© apps, tho. GrapheneOS relies on that as well.
That doesn’t apply to grapheneos as they don’t license gms
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Graphene doesn’t rely on any Google Services. They compile the OS themselves and don’t include those services.
If you want it, you have to choose to install them.
My point was that Graphene uses non Play Store software, including an app store. But what I underestand from the comments is that the prohibition of software installation relies on Google Play Services, so Graphene is on the clear with that.
You can install apps freely with ADB so it will work that way or simply by removing google services, from what i understood(but i may be wrong) it’s done by using google services so you need to uninstall them
It doesn’t. There are several alternative installation sources available. On this Pixel tablet there is no Google Play originating software at all.
That was my point, GrapheneOS relies partially on installing non Google Play originating software.
I don’t understand your point. You can operate GOS completely without any Google sourced application or services. This how I run my tablet. My phone has Google Play sandboxed. It has no additional permissions.
I was confused about the app installation process. I though Android as a whole was prohibiting any installation of non Play Store apps (other than using adb), and since Graphene uses an external app store, they needed to come with a workaround.
It does make sense it would be Nothing. I feel like the CEO reads the Youtube comments asking for GOS
Nothing isn’t a “major OEM” but I think they’d be interested in it. Maybe they’ll be next.
Nothing is a major OEM wdym.
AAAAAAAAAAA DON’T JINX IT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
It’s America, it’s going to be Samsung.
Nope , Motorola has snapdragon and you can unlock OEM
My $$ was on moto as well - it’s already about the closest thing to stock and they probably need the boost.
Whereas Samsung is fucking worlds apart for actual android
I’ve loved my Motorola’s. They’re seemingly the last manufacturer that realises that for a bunch of people (myself included) a good priced mid-range device is more than sufficient.
just recently (2 months ago), I bought a Moto G84 5G, specifically because it had a snapdragon processor (and therefore good custom ROM support), is officially supported by LineageOS and it was cheap (160 EUR). I never needed a flagship phone, the cheap phones ~200 EUR always worked fine for me.
I was using Xiaomi/Redmi/Poco devices before that, but it seems that they have gone entirely Mediatek in that price segment, which is a shame.
I’ve never used one but a buddy has one (of some sort - no idea of the model) and he can barely use signal because the battery management keeps killing the app.
He’s still got the stock ROM on it, but hasn’t been able to make the messaging usable which is sad. I’d grabbed a Samsung that my work had somehow slipped from knox enrollment so was able to root it but found its battery management was similarly abysmal and am starting to worry if maybe recent android is emulating those old performance / malware apps that aggressively kill off everything rather than letting the OS handle its own memory…
Now I know this is all reading like a fever dream but my handsets are on laughably old droid versions because I’m scarred by A/B partitions and oneplus so have let it all slip (that and Google keeps shitting on android!), so after all that waffle, I’m curious if you’ve got any similar anecdotes??
Cheers, Flambonkscious the rando
I don’t have any anecdotes, really. On all my cheap devices, I never really had any issues with apps getting killed by battery management. I know that sometimes, you’ll have to specifically switch off battery management for these specific apps, which can usually be done with a single action that the app generally let’s you access directly on first setup.
But I’ve always used stock android or at least AOSP based Roms - I’ve never stuck with OEM Roms longer than the (usually) first 7 days they keep you from unlocking the bootloader. Once I can unlock the bootloader, the OEM Rom is gone.
I do know that some OEMs have their own battery management implemented on top of androids, which is often more aggressive, and a bit more convoluted to access.
Yeah, this was really my first time with a Samsung and I’ll never go near it again…
But Motorola doesn’t have phones priced the same as Pixel (unless talking only about the Edge series).
Yes they have, look at razr
Razr is in that range.
Samsung is the largest Android manufacturer by a wide margin, and make a bunch of their money using spyware. Seems unlikely they would give GOS the time of day.
I hope so, I love samsung’s hardware and having a secure OS option to get out from under their godawful UI / OS stuff would be amazing.
Yeah, I like folding phones. I use a Pixel 9 pro fold with grapheme currently, and I’d love for it to remain an option with Graphene in the future.
Yeah, GraphineOS with OneUI would be a hard sell
While it would be amazing if Samsung did open their phones up for custom ROMs again, I highly doubt they are doing. Its going to be a much smaller OEM.
