the proposal is from a red-hat team member and is proposing addition of “privacy-respecting” telemetry. here’s the link to the hyperkitty thread
Really? How am I supposed to trust these guys with my data, when they show me a pop-up like that? I guess that this data is anonymous only because otherwise the telemetry would need to be opt-out… oh wait, they explicitly said that:
That said, Fedora Legal has determined that if we collect any personally-identifiable data, the entire metrics system must be opt-in. Since we are only interested in opt-out metrics due to the low value of opt-in metrics, we must accordingly never collect any personally-identifiable data.
That’s one of the worst cookie banners I’ve ever seen
It’s completely useless. If they don’t collect personal data, then they don’t have to show a banner. Bad faith compliance with GDPR (including “the GDPR made us show this banner”) should be punished more heavily.
Jesus bellydancing Christ people, read beyond the title of the post for once. This is good.
This will enable results that aren’t biased by the few users who find the option to opt-in (when it’s not presented front and center) or actively answer to surveys.
They are taking as much care as possible with their words to make it clear that THEY DO NOT WANT TO TRACK YOU OR ABUSE YOUR DATA, it’s just what’s necessary for studies to better understand the users’ needs.
- You will have the chance to disable it front and center during the setup process;
- No data will be sent before an active confirmation from the user during the setup process;
- You will be able to fetch the data at any point to check what’s being collected
- They are reaching out to the community for guidance on what type of data we find acceptable or not
- You can have an active participation on the building of this tool
And specially this, for the OH GOD, ITS THE END OF THE LINOX DESKTOP among you:
IT’S A PROPOSAL, IT’S NOT BEING ACTIVELY DEVELOPED YET!
Not only there’s no reason to overreact, this could be the start of something beautiful for the Linux desktop, where the users not only actively participate but actively control their data
i thought the whole idea was to be the only one who is using your computer. it doesnt matter if they are taking data that cant be used to identify you personally, the road to hell is made with good intentions. and also, i agree that by using telemetry, great insights can help the devs develop a better Linux desktop, but linux is more about the freedom to be let alone if you want to be left alone.
and how exactly does having telemetry (that can be easily turned off at any time) impedes your freedom to be left alone?
easy for who? why not use it in the sense of ‘easily turned on.’ and then make it as easy as possible for people to turn it on because it is in the devs and sponsors’ best interest, but making an easy-to-turn-off telemetry is a conflict of interest for them.
And they say Lemmy will not become Reddit. Pfft. The culture of reading only the headline and immediately take the rage bait is already seeping in.
why? just don’t ruin my beloved fedora please, if telemetry exists it should be opt in, not opt out
This. I always opt in BECAUSE it’s opt in. Ask and ye shall receive and all that; but if you’re gonna try to force my hand, well…no, I don’t think I will.
I totally agree. It’s a shame, Fedora really is an awesome distro. Adding telemetry was to be expected since IBM is the parent company of Red hat and almost anything IBM touches turns to crap.
yeah might be time to distro hop i guess
Fedora is what finally got me to stop distro hopping 2-3 years ago. :(
fedora is my first experience with linux and i thought i made a good choice and i never had to mess around anymore but now i am seriously considering it :/
Same. It would be a real shame if we need to jump ship.
Why would you prefer an IBM maintained distro?
Who said anything about “preference” to an IBM distro? I used Linux mint, Ubuntu, manjaro, arch, opensuse in the past, so there’s definitely no preference to IBM.
No, this is not “ruining your beautiful Fedora”, this is a proposal that both us users and the developers can pitch in to develop telemtry in a way that does not abuse its users.
And about the opt-in/opt-out nature of it, feel free to join the follow-up discussion about it on the forum:
If this gets implemented, I’ll certainly be switching distros. That opt-out telemetry is even a serious proposal is potentially enough for me to switch, as it indicates where the Fedora team’s heads are. I’ve been using and recommending Fedora for over a decade, but this is crosses a line.
Please read the thing properly. It is nothing more than a proposal currently, which is being actively discussed with the community to make sure that users (including you) are satisfied with the result if it is implemented, or to make sure it is not implemented at all.
Reading through the post it looks like the project leads (Fedora council members) are arguing in favour of “opt-out” and the larger community is arguing in favour or either opt-in or a middle ground where the user has to select an option with no default.
Honestly it seems like the Fedora team is arguing that there are only two options: opt-out, or nothing at all. This isn’t true and people are commenting with more reasonable alternatives.
I know its not in development yet, but if the Fedora council members are saying “opt-out or nothing”, not a good look TBH given this initial community response.
Telemetry should not exist in the first place. If it exists, it should completely be opt-in and self-contained in one single package that is not installed by default.
Everything else is hostile.
Agreed; telemetry should always be opt-in because it requires consent.
The problem with opt-in telemetry is that it messes with the scope of the research.
If you want to understand something about most users (and not just the ones that are active enough in the project to participate in opt-in) you need this, otherwise your results only tell the needs of this subset of your userbase and this sometimes can go completely against the needs of the majority of users.
The problem with telemetry isn’t the telemetry itself, is how it is used, and the way the proposal is worded makes me very optimistic. They are trying 200% hard to make sure we understand that it will never be used in violation of the users’ privacy.
The problem with opt-in telemetry is that it messes with the scope of the research.
Too bad. That does not make it okay to collect data without consent.
Not ever.
In other words, unbiased telemetry is not possible to do ethically. (Or to say it differently, ethical telemetry necessarily has bias.)
And once again, it isn’t “without consent”, it just means that the default state of the checkbox is on. Users will still be presented with a confirm option before any data is sent.
In other words, unbiased telemetry is not possible to do ethically.
Say that to the opentelemetry and Plausible folks, who have been on the vanguard of doing exactly that for years now.
the default state of the checkbox is on.
That’s a very strange thing to mistake for consent.
It’s not mistaken for context, you’re just missing the point. The switch is just part of it, the user would still have to consent to send their data before it is sent and the proposal proposes to have it detailing the data that is going to be sent and explaining the process.
Having it as a default guarantees it doesn’t scare non-power users away from it. It’s not about just having people clicking next and accepting it without consent.
It’s not mistaken for consent, only if you dont switch it off the data is sent.
Inaction is not consent.
a classic paradox-ish thing:
if the average person doesnt consent to fill a questionnaire, or an interview, how do you collect data about the average person. but then again, how do you know the average person doesnt want to fill a questionnaire? did you spread a questionnaire that had the question ‘do you fill questionnaire?’ in it
