TikTok says it’s not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine — The company denied allegations that it has been promoting pro-Palestine content in an effort to sway American opinion::In a blog post, the company denied allegations that it has been promoting pro-Palestine content in an effort to sway American opinion.
Almost like when you take religion out of the picture it’s one country committing genocide against another which is never okay for any reason. Israel can scream “but muh anti-semitism” all they want but it’s a scapegoat. Ignore Jewish/Muslim backgrounds and look at what’s really going on. It’s nothing but a disgusting land grab and genocide that’s been going on since WW2.
The world would 100% be a better place without Israel, and that’s nothing to do with their religion. The country itself is evil and corrupt. They are bigoted and hypocritical. Israel deserves no sympathy or support. Out of all the bullshit I’ve seen happen in the middle east the past few decades, Israel is definitely the most abhorrent and repulsive source of conflict.
do you genuinely think israel wants this tiny stretch of land, even at the cost of all of this(thousands of israelis dead, more soldiers die every day, rockets and terror attacks from lebanon, syria and yemen, and all the public backlash) I’ll tell you a hint, they truly don’t and if they did, they won’t take it this slowly, and this carefully not to hurt civilians if they truly just wanted the tiny piece of land, it would have been so kuch easier to just indiscriminately level the entire place (without the need for a ground invasion)
I know I’m not gonna change any minds here as people like you who have already decided israel is the culmination of all evil won’t back down from that belief that easily, but just try to not assume every israeli born is a racist Palestinian hater, and try to think why would they go through all of this, what do they stand to gain or to lose, assuming of course they are rational human beings
btw if it’s genocide for the past 56 years, they are truly really really bad at committing genocide
I’d say they’re good at it considering they’re getting away with it.
It’s almost like teens see something like a genocide being committed, think it’s wrong and say something about it.
Yeah I don’t think teens are particularly pro-Palestine or anti-Israel.
Teens throughout history have just been anti-war and anti-killing-children.
I’m convinced this whole tiktok is manipulating the algorithm thing is actually US propaganda.
Here’s how you actually “manipulate the algorithm.”
1: take up residency in the comments, and at the same time start a few basic accts that don’t say anything too controversial (day in the life kinda stuff, thirst traps, etc). Establish a basic presence
2: once you amass a following, you start with pretty basic stuff lots of young people agree with - housing/healthcare reform, work reform, etc
3: an important part a lot of people miss - have your own team troll your comments. Stir up shit. The goal is to get people riled up, not move the needle in any specific direction
4: throw out something big (it’s been confirmed that Russia is behind distribution on TikTok of OBL’s “Letter to America” recently). Fight on both sides, tagging in as much of the greater sphere of commenters as you can.
That’s it. That’s all anyone’s doing. Just do this over and over and you eventually drive people crazy.
They did the exact same thing in 2016, they did it in 2020 with BLM, they did it with Ukraine. It’s nothing new
Have you seen Chinese TikTok vs America TikTok? It’s wild. The Chinese TikTok has videos of scientists and musicians and engineers all tackling major problems. It’s inspirational. The American TikTok is absolutely fucked. There’s clearly heavy algorithm manipulation. At the very least, we know China could make American TikTok not terrible and they choose not to.
A lot of the best sci-fi is coming out of China these days. People who like to theorize about these things point to a population, much like America in the post war Baby Boom, seeing for themselves the benefits science can bring to their lives as China pretty rapidly develops, and being fascinated by what could be next.
So you might need to accept that the most popular trending American social media is venal and insipid because the average American wants to see venal and insipid, while the Chinese population might just be interested in things that interest them.
Though the sympathies of Democrats of all ages had tended to shift toward Palestinians over time, those aged 23-43 had the largest swing in the most recent poll and are the only group where sympathies for Palestinians now outweigh those for Israelis.
https://www.newsweek.com/democrats-joe-biden-palestine-millennials-1835455
there’s an increasing divide between real people and the owner class when it comes to Israel. Our government treats Israel like it has an unlimited budget and can do no wrong because the realpolitik is such that they need a client state in the middle east. Regular, everyday people OTOH are being shown a war of genocide in real time from dozens of different angles and it turns out that watching it happen live invokes vastly different feelings than watching a press conference where Israel and the US congratulate themselves on establishing a daily 4 hour window where they won’t bomb civilians unless they really, really want to. It’s turning out that there actually is a number of innocent lives we’re not willing to trade for one guilty life, and that for a lot of us that number is 1. It’s turning out that we’re smart enough to realize that evacuation warnings on twitter in english are probably aren’t meant for an Arabic-speaking population that lives somewhere where the internet has been cut off and are, therefore, just Israel trying to manage its reputation in the west. We’re also human enough to realize that we wouldn’t accept someone firebombing our entire neighborhood to rubble even if one of our neighbors was evil and they sent an evacuation warning first, and that the basics of decency demand that we don’t ask Palestinians to do so either.
The thing that sunk the Vietnam war in America was embedded journalists. People who have seen war have a hard time defending it. So the war machine adapted: now you only get access to report on the war if your reporting supports the war effort itself (“winning the war”) and the effort to maintain moral authority while waging the war (“winning the hearts and minds”). Thing is, now anyone can broadcast themselves to the entire world at a moment’s notice. It was already hard to limit the reporting capabilities of 5 or 6 news orgs, now everyone you’re trying to have a war with is their own news org. Why do you think they tried to shut down the internet in Gaza almost immediately? Why now are they targeting a platform where anyone can go live and the data is out of the hands of western governments until after it’s already in the eyes and ears of western civilians? They’re trying to stem the flow of information because if we know what’s going one we’re not gonna support it.
Remember! Truth tellers don’t mind being questioned or scrutinized.
Liars are the ones that always rush to silence the opposition and censor everyone they disagree with.
The amount of pro Palestinian support is overwhelming everywhere. Only newspapers and Reddit bots and paid shills are still spreading IDF propaganda. The rest of the world sees israel for the Nazi’s they are.
I think the Israeli government is authoritarian, and their scorched earth tactics against Palestinians are war crimes, but you’re not doing the cause any favors by invoking the Nazis. Criticize their actual behavior.
In a context where we have the lies about the hospitals having tunnels under them, that 40 non-existent babies were beheaded and where some key facts about Oct 7 have somewhat unravelled, how far would you even bother policing the words of people wishing for a liberated Palestinian?
The Israelis and their supporters are also notorious liars and frequently try to claim that Muslims or brown people were responsible for the Holocaust in Europe.
They’ve bombed civilians before and the intelligence they send tend to be garbage according to EU after they looked through the reams of documents the Israelis sent them. As an occupier, Israel behaves like a country at war all the time, they lie, kill and cheat perpetually.
They turned Gaza into a concentration camp.
As Jews, they should absolutely know better.
The problem is their behavior and rhetoric towards Palestine resembles a sentiment shared by the OG Nazis
The problem is when you mention Nazis to Jews, the first things they’ll think of are Zyklon B, Babi Yar, the piles of children’s shoes at Auschwitz, Mengele, that sort of thing.
And while what’s going on in Israel is terrible, it’s not Mengele terrible, Babi Yar terrible, or Treblinka terrible. So they write you off as just another antisemite, rather than listening to your point.
A broken tiktok is right twice a day…
I’m pro-human beings and opposed to killing and maiming people who are trying to enjoy their life.
Yet we’re not seeing calls for Hamas to step down and let innocent Palestinians live in some version of peace that can never be known under Islamic jihad…
Which I find very weird. The lack of conversation surrounding the admitted goals of the leaders of the Palestinian people is something that needs to be part of any conversation.
Because they’re not going to do that. You can’t call them terrorists and expect logical reasonable action or reaction.
The Palestinian people by in large did not vote Hamas in, over 50% of the people in Gaza were not alive during the last election.
Because they’re not going to do that. You can’t call them terrorists and expect logical reasonable action or reaction.
So we shouldn’t call them terrorists and hope they stop killing people? I’m sorry that doesn’t make any sense. Israel isn’t about to stop their war on Hamas, yet it doesn’t stop the world criticising them.
The Palestinian people by and large did not vote Hamas in, over 50% of the people in Gaza were not alive during the last election.
While technically true, almost 70% of Gazans support armed attacks on Israeli civilians.](https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll 89 English Full Text September 2023.pdf) I know it doesn’t fit the oppressor/oppressed narrative, but the vast majority of people in Gaza support what Hamas is doing. If elections were held today, according to that same poll, they would vote Hamas back in.
IMO there are big risks consuming news & opinion from any single source.
Whether it’s the CCP manipulating the TikTok algorithm, Russia buying ad space on Facebook, or American conglomerates pushing narratives on western mainstream media, there will be implicit biases everywhere.
The only real answer is to get news from multiple sources with diverging perspectives, try to find where facts overlap, challenge your own implicit biases, and form a perspective in line w/ your values.
Seeing America blame TikTok for pushing propaganda is the pot calling the kettle black – and honestly more of a distraction than anything else.
The real important issue is that people are dying, and the existing power structures are doing jack shit to stop it.
Algorithm probably plays a sizeable part in that, but as an older gen Z fella I have become indifferent to both countries of this conflict. Both Israel and Palestine just race with each other who can check the most boxes in the Geneva Convention rules list. Just leave those 2 to sort this mess out for themselves, It’s not like we get a Holy Site bonus effect by owning Jerusalem.
Or just put a stop on this, but this is a naive thinking.
I think people’s issue is that you (the west) is funding one side of it.
I’m pretty isolationist too though. Pull the funding to both sides. Let them figure it out themselves (Israel will probably not exist in the end of this scenario).
Israel is at the front of the war on the west, from Syria to Lebanon and Iran. It’s in the west’s interest that they exist and be strong to be a force in the middle east and defend the west from falling to jihadist rule.
The US doesn’t have any strategic benefit in propping up Israel other than doing so being weirdly important to white voters.
How does the US not have any strategic interest in propping up Israel? This is insane. Israel is the biggest strategic ally of the US in the middle east, do you not know anything about the issue? They protect and fund Israel more than anyone in the world.
Yeah, the US is the only thing keeping Israel in business. They’re useful to keep an eye on Iran, because we don’t like Iran, because…?
Saudis need our weapons, and Qatar likes the money we spend to keep our increasing number of bases there. But these are purely transactional relationships that we can have with anyone.
I think Kuwait are still fans of the US.
Other than that, everyone hates us because we protect Israel, and they hate Israel. Why don’t we just join the club, and pick up an entire region of strategic allies instead of “Israel at all costs”?
other than doing so being weirdly important to white voters.
Race has nothing to do with it. Christian Zealots want all that land to belong to Israel because they think it will start the rapture and then the Christian Armageddon.
And Jewish zealots want all that land to belong to Israel because they think they’re the only ones who have any right to it. They literally think an invisible wizard in the sky gave it to them and that anyone who says or even suggests anything to the contrary is an antisemite.
I know we have outposts in Israel keeping an eye on - as an example - Iran and shit, but why do we have to be enemies with Iran in the first place? Our situation with Israel just seems like a pointless one-way relationship that only serves to further alienate the rest of the middle east from us.
why do we have to be enemies with Iran in the first place?
The US points fingers at Iran for everything Saudi Arabia is guilty of. And since Biden uttered a single syllable of criticism of them, they stopped selling oil in american dollars. So since we’re off the gold standard, we’ve given power over our currency to Saudi Arabia.
But to your question. Saudi Arabia decided to work with us and fuck their people. Iran wanted to give their people some dignity in exchange for what we wanted from them. The only reason we haven’t turned Iran to ash, like we did with every other country in the middle east and are continuing to do…excluding Saudi Arabia and Israel. Is because going to war with Iran means going to war with Russia and going to war with Russia means nuclear Armageddon for the entire world from WW3 happening
But now we’re sprinting toward nuclear Armageddon with what’s happening in Gaza AND Ukraine. We have Hillary making up Russiagate to thank for the bullshit happening in Ukraine…that and the US has been fucking with Russia through Ukraine for decades now.
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If you aren’t anti-oppression or anti-apartheid you aren’t progressive
Yeah well, one can be anti-oppression and anti-apartheid as well as anti-terror, anti-killing-civilians, anti-bombing-hospitals, anti-using-civilians-as-shields, anti-hostage-taking and anti-warcrimes.
The israeli Government is not the only one with blood on their hands and while nothing can excuse what the IDF is doing, nothing can excuse what HAMAS is doing too.
Both sides fucking suck, the only difference I can see is that HAMAS is bad for Israelis and Palestinians moreso than the Israeli Government is also bad for Israelis.
That’s the only difference you see? Not the extreme disproportionality of the bloodshed? Not the comparisons between civilian casualties on each side?
Hamas is like the cave-dwelling dwarf people that America made up for the middle-east to justify killing over a hundred-thousand civilians. Seriously, are we to believe that Gaza has a bunch of Gringotts vaults underneath it?
Seriously, it is clear that the bombing is not about saving hostages nor destroying Hamas. Would it surprise anyone if they found out that Israel’s far-right government is like the ex that attacks you and then punches themselves and screams like a Karen that you attacked them first… and then when asked for evidence because their wounds look self-induced, they yell… you don’t believe me you antisemitic Nazi!?!
Oh no! Not a German overcompensating for their countries role in the holocaust.
Both sides fucking suck, the only difference I can see is that HAMAS is bad for Israelis and Palestinians moreso than the Israeli Government is for Israelis.
- Israel has effectively removed freedom of speech in Israel and are incarcerating thousands of dissenting Israelis (believe it or not this is bad for Israelis)
- Israel has policies for killing soldiers and civilians if they are going to be taken hostage (dying is generally seen as bad for everyone)
- Israeli helicopters indiscriminately shooting at the festival are responsible for most of the deaths at the festival on the 7th (pretty bad for Israelis)
- Israel has killed more Israeli hostages than Hamas and has tried to refuse accepting the return of hostages (I’d be more scared of Israel than hamas if I was a hostage right now)
- Israel has a 99% civilian kill ratio when targeting hamas in this latest operation (IOF just being a shit army, bad for Israelis to be linked to this)
If you want to dismantle Hamas for the the operation on the 7th, by the same logic we should dismantle Israel 10x for all their operations since 2003 such as operation lead.
Israeli helicopters indiscriminately shooting at the festival are responsible for most of the deaths at the festival on the 7th (pretty bad for Israelis)
Do you have a source for this?
Yeah well, one can be anti-oppression and anti-apartheid as well as anti-terror, anti-killing-civilians, anti-bombing-hospitals, anti-using-civilians-as-shields, anti-hostage-taking and anti-warcrimes.
Sure, and if you are those things its going to be hard to get enthusiastic about voting for Biden.
You literally listed off everything Israel is doing. Good job.
Israel’s killed over 11k civilians since Oct 7th.
Israel’s bombed over 20 hospitals.
Israel refused to take their hostages back even when Hamas offered them in exchange for the Palestinians hostages Israel has. Then bombed the locations they know hostages were at.
Netanyahu be like… “Hmm, they are going to attack but if I stop them I may still go to jail, but if I don’t then I get more power… Let me have the Kushners put me in touch with Donny to see what he’d do.”
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Ah yes the choice between democracy (fascism lite) and fascism.
It’d be nice if Americans finally overthrew their system or just voted for other parties/independents.
Also not everyone here is from the US btw.
Democracy is demonstrably far less oppressive than fascism.
If you are actually anti-opression, the choice for Democracy is a no-brainer.
My point is that the incumbent party and the opposition are both anti democracy and authoritarian compared to the rest of the world.
Look at the police brutality against peaceful activists in the capitol last night and tell me if that was China that wouldn’t be used by the American media to tell Americans how authoritarian China is.
This is happening under the democrats, the alleged protectors of democracy. Last time I checked freedom of speech was a democratic ideal in America and the right to protest was a human right.
You’re running in nonsensical circles my dude. First you say “Democracy” is “fascism-lite”, now you’re saying that to be “anti-Democracy” is “authoritarian”.
Did you slip up and accidentally reveal to the wrong community that you’re anti-Democracy, or did you poorly communicate your original intent and write out the wrong statement?
The ultimatum posed to me was democracy vs god emperor, in this context it is clearly putting democrats as the democratic option and republicans as the theocratic authoritarian option.
Me saying in response:
democracy (fascism lite) vs fascism
Is not me saying democracy is fascism, its me saying the two options both look like fascism from outside the US.
Good thing our democracy in the US is exceedingly healthy and citizens vote directly and not through sellout politicians. Oh wait
Ah yes, the nuanced thinking of a 5 year old - everything is black and white and everyone who doesn’t agree w me 100% is evil
Ironically the same mindset held by hamas and israel.
Do you know what genocide is? It’s pretty much the most black and white issue there could possibly be. People who disagree with me on this ARE evil. There is actually such a thing as truth.
If it’s so black and white, then why are there numerous international councils, courts, and meetings where accusations of genocide are fiercely debated?
Because Israel is good at propaganda, and the most powerful country ever supports them. It’s not remotely debatable though, the American hegemony just wants it to be.
Sure, but who is the “oppressor” and who is the “oppressed” can flip on a dime based on context.
A lot of oppressed people eventually find themselves to be the oppressor.
If you take a hard stance joining any side, you are at some point siding with an oppressor.
I don’t need to describe how horrific and oppressive Nazi Germany and the Holocaust was. But you take a hard stance siding with the Jewish people, you are siding with the oppressor in the Israel-Palestine conflict.
I don’t need to describe how horrific the situation in Gaza is, but if you take a hard stance siding with Palestine and Hamas executes a bunch of festival goers, you’re siding with the oppressor.
The only way to be anti-opression (and according to you, a real progressive), is to not take sides but take every situation as it is and support the best possible outcome for everyone.
Israel doesn’t represent every Jew that ever lived around the world.
Yes I support the Warsaw uprising.
Yes I support the dismantlement of apartheid states.
These are not conflicting stances.
If the oppressed become an oppressor my stance can change on them. Not taking the side of the oppressed while they are being oppressed is cowardly and indirectly supports the status quo/the oppressor.
I must have missed history class where the Warsaw Uprising attacked a peace festival.
Being oppressed is not a license to become a monster yourself. I refuse to condone cold blooded revenge (both Hamas and IDF).
That the festival was for peace in Gaza is an onboarding lie spread by the IDF. The festival was simply in celebration of the Jewish holiday of Sukkot. The motto was “friends, love and infinite freedom”, so just about a regular rave.
Sadly mandatory: This doesn’t make it okay to slaughter and abduct the attendees.
Alright what about warcrimes committed by resistance fighters and the allied forced during ww2?
If you support those groups even though they have done bad shit then you’re a hypocrite and you should try and understand why you consider them differently.
You’re demanding to view this as “good team” / “bad team”. Fix that first because it stops any hope for peace.
Did looking at Nazis as the bad guys stop peace?
But no I’m asking if you support critically or uncritically the allies in ww2.
If you support the allies even though they committed war crimes and you don’t at least uncritically support an oppressed peoples struggle then you are at best a hypocrite and at worst a racist.
Hamas wants to get Palestinian’s killed by Israel, that’s their goal. They want their own people to die so Israel looks bad and maybe Hamas can get Saudi Arabia to attack.
That’s worse than what the allies did.
Hamas wants hostages to do a hostage swap for Palestinians that Israel is holding hostage in their prisons.
This is true of any organisation fighting a nation state.
The IRA did hostage swaps with the British government and this was one of the reasons there is peace in northern Ireland.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/18/prisoner-swaps-cornerstone-northern-ireland
Edit: looking at tavarins comment history it is most likely they are a Zionist mouthpiece. Hope they are getting paid and not doing unpaid labour ❤
At this point i support hamas uncritically because israel is an apartheid state and its stepdad, the USA, is the largest state sponsor of terror in the world.
If you aren’t anti-religious-fascism you aren’t a civilized person. But it seems that more and more “progressives” are falling in that category.
It might be a surprise to Americans that many people think that Israelis are evil bastards.
I don’t think an algorithm is responsible for the fact that most sane people are generally against genocide. People being pro-Palestine in this specific situation is a humanitarian response and should not be causing any amount of concern because it is the morally correct position here.
HOWEVER, the fact that we just witnessed the fucking letter to america go viral on tiktok, wherein a soul crushing amount of people publicly stated they agree with a fucking jihadist manifesto, is cause for a massive amount of concern. Tiktok definitely needs to face consequences for letting that happen. We also can’t excuse the audience for that type of behaviour. Whether it came from a deliberate propaganda campaign, or a sketchy algorithm, or just mass stupidity, audience members need to be better. If you read the letter to america and you think bin laden was right, you’re a moron, and you’re contributing to the problem.
I think you should pay less attention to mainstream media which propped that issue up disproportionately. It wasn’t as big of a deal as many made it out to be.
But regardless of that, I don’t think one should be concerned about opinions of people and I certainly don’t think it is an issue at all if young people hate the US. It has done some of the most fucked up things in the world since the start of the last century to say the least. This may be expressed in stupid ways like sympathising for Bin Laden, but the broader sentiment of hate towards the US isn’t wrong.
I wouldn’t trust TikTok
